World Wide Webber - Why Web, not REST?

Posted: 17 September 2008 @ 12:14 UT from Oslo, Norway

During my talk at JavaZone, I discussed Web-centric approaches for doing the Guerrilla SOA thing. I took a principled stand on it really, saying that I was deliberately going to be a Web proponent rather than a REST proponent. Aslak called me out about it, remarking that what I was talking about was actually RESTful.

He's right of course, what I tend to talk about is full-on HATEOS compliant, ETag loving RESTfulness. Yet, REST is simply an architectural style, and although the Web has RESTful intentions at its core, some commonplace uses of the Web aren't entirely RESTful.

So why do I talk about the Web not REST? Firstly book Savas, Ian and me are writing has Web in the title, so it's partially a marketing ploy :-)

But more so because I'm not interested in a RESTful JMS architecture, or implementing REST over carrier pigeons. To me the emergent behaviour of the Web makes it qualitatively different, especially since the Web tolerates non-RESTful behaviours like having clients guess at URIs from URI templates.

All that wonderful chaos at global scale is why the Web is appealing, and why I think REST is simply a backdrop to that picture.

comments: 7

Comments:

Applied with too much dogma, REST can get just as ugly as SOAP (okay, maybe not quite, but). It's a constraint, a hole of some shape that one must wedge their oddly shaped application domain and user interface requirements into. Thus, I've come to enjoy describing web services that I create as "Non-Stupid XML over HTTP with Clean URLs and GET and POST where each makes sense", or simpy NSXHCUGP for short.

Posted by Clinton Begin @ 17 September 2008 02:54 UT

I really enjoyed your presentation, Jim. Learning to accept the spaghetti is a strong message that got me (and I'm sure many others) thinking. The web is just a big pile of carbonara and we all know it works great. The enterprise definitely has something to learn from that.

BTW, do you know where I can buy a REST?

Posted by Aslak Hellesøy, email, url @ 19 September 2008 08:10 UT

#	Hey Aslak, Yes I do know where you can buy a REST. I believe ThoughtWorks studios are selling them now, and you can get a volume discount too :-) Jim Posted by Jim Webber, url @ 19 September 2008 08:23 UT

#	"Firstly book Savas, Ian and me are writing has Web in the title" So did your last one ;) Posted by Bill de hÓra, email, url @ 20 September 2008 02:14 UT

#	Thanks for a great presentation at JavaZone. I really enjoyed it. Posted by John Fjellstad @ 20 September 2008 05:18 UT

That's the way it should be presented: REST style, Web Architecture, and Web-based/REST-based applications. It annoys me to no end that some folks choose to ignore the distinct purposes of styles, architectures, and implementations and lump them all under one name. I blame it on IBM for their marketing of "Web Services" for things that had nothing to do with the Web, which made it hard to explain why Web Architecture had nothing to do with SOAP, WSDL, etc.

Posted by Roy T. Fielding, email, url @ 20 September 2008 06:24 UT

#	Hey Bill, LMAO :-) But this one will be about the Web (and a bit of REST even, maybe.) Jim Posted by Jim Webber, url @ 21 September 2008 12:14 UT